WEBVTT 1 00:01:54.100 --> 00:02:05.009 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Yeah, and we also record the session, and we'll share the recording or the transcript along with the slides with everybody. 2 00:02:05.810 --> 00:02:11.890 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Okay, so just quickly, first, something about what is CMOS plus X. 3 00:02:11.900 --> 00:02:27.119 Kia Omid-Zohoor: So our, lead of our Hub, Professor Philip Wong of Stanford, gonna talk about that. And then the, director, the CXR director of our Hub, gonna talk more detail about the CXR Service Center. 4 00:02:27.460 --> 00:02:44.230 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Then… then we hope there's plenty of time to leave for Q&A. We did have a few pre-selected questions, but mainly we're going to collect questions from you… from the chat and ask them. Okay, so without further ado, Philip, could you start? 5 00:02:44.430 --> 00:02:45.070 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Thank you. 6 00:02:45.360 --> 00:02:57.570 H.-S. Philip Wong: Thank you, CP. This is Philip Wong, professor of Stanford, and here I'm the lead of the California Pacific Northwest AI Hub, and I want to welcome you to all this… all to this seminar. 7 00:02:57.570 --> 00:03:08.059 H.-S. Philip Wong: this webinar in here. This webinar is about the CMOS plus X run, and that we will be, implementing in this coming year… in this year. 8 00:03:08.060 --> 00:03:13.740 H.-S. Philip Wong: And, here will, talk about that in more detail later on. And just… 9 00:03:13.740 --> 00:03:32.980 H.-S. Philip Wong: But just for starters, what is CMOS plus X? As you know, the CMOS platform has been extremely versatile in providing all kinds of control and management function for various parts of the electronic systems, including memory, photonics, spintronics, power electronics. 10 00:03:33.010 --> 00:03:39.839 H.-S. Philip Wong: Nanomechanics, sensors, actuators, RF, millimeter wave, even quantum computing needs to control circuitry. 11 00:03:39.990 --> 00:03:56.930 H.-S. Philip Wong: So all these other technologies that we all kind of in the same ecosystem of microelectronics, of semiconductor technologies, are complemented by… will be complemented by, CMOS logic. 12 00:03:57.070 --> 00:04:04.900 H.-S. Philip Wong: So the question is, then, how do we integrate all these technologies together into a complete platform? 13 00:04:05.210 --> 00:04:18.149 H.-S. Philip Wong: And, many years ago, I was fortunate to be funded by IARPA to demonstrate what they call SplitFab, but by now it's all known as CMOS plus X now. 14 00:04:18.149 --> 00:04:34.090 H.-S. Philip Wong: In which we say, starting from the left-hand side of this diagram in here, we do IC circuit design at Stanford, and went to a foundry to order 300 mini… full 300mm wafers. 15 00:04:34.310 --> 00:04:45.709 H.-S. Philip Wong: These, 300 mm wafers were partially processed, not all the way up to 15 levels of metal, but stopped somewhere in the middle of the metal layers. 16 00:04:45.780 --> 00:05:04.250 H.-S. Philip Wong: And these 300 mm wafers come back to Stanford, and then, because of the inability for University Fabrication facility to handle 300mm wafer, we went to a vendor and core it down and cut it down to 200 millimeter wafer, recreating the notch and everything. 17 00:05:04.290 --> 00:05:08.309 H.-S. Philip Wong: And the barcode and everything, and and then… 18 00:05:08.640 --> 00:05:13.359 H.-S. Philip Wong: Continual fabrication on these 200 millimeter wafers. 19 00:05:13.410 --> 00:05:28.619 H.-S. Philip Wong: And, and after the fabrication, what we did on it, what we integrated on it was resistive switching memory, RM, and and after that, after integration of RM, we do a screening test on the wafer level. 20 00:05:28.620 --> 00:05:35.350 H.-S. Philip Wong: And then follow up by testing, dicing, and packaging, and so on. And that has been a very successful project. 21 00:05:35.350 --> 00:05:53.769 H.-S. Philip Wong: that demonstrated that you can take a foundry CMOS wafer, integrate these plus-X technology, in this case, RRAM, memory technology, onto the CMOS wafer, and be able to achieve very good yield. And we achieved a 99% yield on our RRAM, 22 00:05:53.770 --> 00:06:06.659 H.-S. Philip Wong: And, everything that we design has been functional, is, a, a complete success in terms of delivering to the IARPA sponsors that we supported this project. 23 00:06:06.850 --> 00:06:23.570 H.-S. Philip Wong: So, with that in mind, the next slide, and, in… as we move into, today, the microelectronics Commons, which fund the… many of the activities in some of the hubs, and our hub included. 24 00:06:23.570 --> 00:06:31.419 H.-S. Philip Wong: One of the things that we want to do is to enable the entire semiconductor community in the U.S. 25 00:06:31.420 --> 00:06:43.239 H.-S. Philip Wong: to do this CMOS plus X activity, to allow you to integrate various plus X technologies. This X technology could be memory, could be photonics, could be Sprintronics. 26 00:06:43.280 --> 00:06:56.560 H.-S. Philip Wong: mechanical devices, sensors, actuators, RF, millimeter wave, anything you can think of, or even qubits, you can integrate it onto the CMOS, and we provide the capability for you to do that. 27 00:06:56.560 --> 00:07:08.089 H.-S. Philip Wong: And so, I'd like to pass it on to Kia to describe to you the… what we call the journey of CXR Rout, the CMOS plus X route, a route for us to, 28 00:07:08.090 --> 00:07:20.389 H.-S. Philip Wong: put our innovation on the X technology onto a CMOS platform, so you can do… you can build more complex functionality and systems out of your design. Yeah, Kia? 29 00:07:20.980 --> 00:07:29.449 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Thank you, Philip. Okay, my name is Kia, and I'll be talking to you about CXR Service Center. 30 00:07:29.910 --> 00:07:46.740 Kia Omid-Zohoor: So, in this slide, actually, what I'd like to… I'd like to highlight what CXR provides as a service center, and what we have already accomplished. CXR offers access to advanced CMOS foundry technologies, combined with design enablement support. 31 00:07:46.750 --> 00:07:50.929 Kia Omid-Zohoor: as PDK Access and Technology Design Interface Protocols. 32 00:07:50.960 --> 00:08:08.920 Kia Omid-Zohoor: We also manage NDAs and secure IP handling, which is essential when you aggregate multiple academic and a startup design onto a shared wafer. I'll come to this shared wafer later, okay? In addition, CXR operates as a concierge service. 33 00:08:08.920 --> 00:08:32.299 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Providing hands-on consulting to help users integrate their emerging X technologies on top of advanced CMOS platform that Philip was talking about. This includes, you know, technical technology integration and design enablement, coordination of wafer preparation services, such as couponing, coring, dicing, thinning, polishing. 34 00:08:32.299 --> 00:08:43.249 Kia Omid-Zohoor: beveling, Also, connection to qualified and audited silicon processing vendors that they are familiar with advanced node handling. 35 00:08:44.210 --> 00:08:59.900 Kia Omid-Zohoor: This is very important. Unlike traditional MPW brokers, CXR provides access to full wafers, not ablated wafers. Okay, making heterogeneous and emerging technology integration feasible. 36 00:08:59.950 --> 00:09:16.200 Kia Omid-Zohoor: This service is really designed specifically for early-stage, high-risk disruptive technologies, including dual-use applications where IP protection, customization, and post-processing flexibility are really critical. 37 00:09:17.800 --> 00:09:30.009 Kia Omid-Zohoor: In terms of milestone, we have already launched multiple MPW pilot projects involving startups, universities, and national labs. 38 00:09:30.110 --> 00:09:46.750 Kia Omid-Zohoor: We have established a partnership with TSMC and executed a multi-party NDA, in record timeframe, which actually took us probably around 6 weeks. 2 weeks of it was delayed by our own, by our own, 39 00:09:46.830 --> 00:09:57.049 Kia Omid-Zohoor: university system here. And the first CXR MPW shuttle was taped out in January, and Fabout expected in May. 40 00:09:57.130 --> 00:10:07.060 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Multiple hub members have already requested seat reservation for 28 nanometer CXR and MPW shuttle that we are here for. 41 00:10:09.010 --> 00:10:10.260 Kia Omid-Zohoor: So… 42 00:10:10.630 --> 00:10:26.250 Kia Omid-Zohoor: This slide really summarizes participation in our first CXRMPW pilot shuttle. We have, actually, 16 projects spanning academia, industry, joint academia and industry efforts, and a national laboratory. 43 00:10:26.420 --> 00:10:46.030 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Importantly, this was a private MPW shuttle, like all our CXR shuttles will be, meaning it was restricted exclusively to vetted CXR users. This is very important because it secures significantly IP protection. 44 00:10:46.030 --> 00:10:49.869 Kia Omid-Zohoor: and trust compared to open commercial and PW services. 45 00:10:49.870 --> 00:11:05.500 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Across these 16 projects, we are fabricated 20 dies, individual chips, that are really aggregated on a single CXR grand chip that you see on the right-hand side. This is actually the floor plan 46 00:11:05.500 --> 00:11:20.940 Kia Omid-Zohoor: of, kind of, the floor plan of our first shuttle. And these are the folks that you see, they are on this shuttle. You can see a lot of them, they are from different hubs in the East Coast. We also have a startup, national lab, so… 47 00:11:21.030 --> 00:11:22.690 Kia Omid-Zohoor: So… 48 00:11:23.050 --> 00:11:32.910 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Across these, six, the pie chart shows fund… funding sources. We see a healthy mix of government-funded. 49 00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:47.740 Kia Omid-Zohoor: industry and funded, academic funded, and jointly funded projects, which really demonstrate that CXR is effectively bridging public and private investment in early-stage hardware innovation. 50 00:11:48.960 --> 00:12:05.040 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Okay, now, for upcoming CXR shuttle, we have chosen TSMC 28 nanometer, and this is mainly because it is a proven 28 nanometer planner CMOS technology. It is widely used in industry and academia. 51 00:12:05.090 --> 00:12:21.679 Kia Omid-Zohoor: It is really optimized for high-performance computing, AI networking, and advanced SOC research. It is a mature node, with high-yield, stable models, whether it is a SPICE or it is a behavioral model, and it has a strong ecosystem. 52 00:12:21.680 --> 00:12:34.930 Kia Omid-Zohoor: It is ideal for AI, machine learning, accelerators, custom processor, mixed signal SOCs, photonic sensors, and most importantly for university and startup prototyping. 53 00:12:35.360 --> 00:12:57.169 Kia Omid-Zohoor: On technology feature, I can only talk about very high levels, since we don't have any NDA yet, but it is a… it has a multi-VT transistor options, like high VT, which you can use for your low leakage, or standard VT, low VT, or ultra VT for your speed path. We also would have native transistors. 54 00:12:58.020 --> 00:13:04.260 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Multiple metal stack options for high density and thick metal variants is available. 55 00:13:04.310 --> 00:13:18.519 Kia Omid-Zohoor: A standard cell library would be available, memory compiler support would be available, wide I.O. support, low voltage, high voltage, and also for overdrive would be available. General purpose I.O. and high-speed I.O. 56 00:13:18.520 --> 00:13:27.929 Kia Omid-Zohoor: And, most importantly, it would be compatible with industry standard EDA follows. So, cadence, synopsys, you know, 57 00:13:27.930 --> 00:13:31.410 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Mentor Graphics or Siemens, they're all… 58 00:13:31.520 --> 00:13:33.560 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Would be supported by this note. 59 00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:50.139 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Okay, how to join. So the next step for joining the CXR28 shuttle. These are the important dates. So today, we are having a CXR information session that you are here for, and shuttle application would open up. 60 00:13:50.210 --> 00:13:55.480 Kia Omid-Zohoor: in about a week, March 25th. Selection would be in process. 61 00:13:55.670 --> 00:14:06.970 Kia Omid-Zohoor: in April 15. And we target tape-out for November 10. The reason for that is that we want to tape out before Thanksgiving, so if we get 62 00:14:07.400 --> 00:14:16.089 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Some errors, you know, it would come back from TSMC. We would be able to fix them before, within the two weeks before Thanksgiving, and tape out. 63 00:14:16.430 --> 00:14:40.750 Kia Omid-Zohoor: How to apply? Application form will be available on our Hub, on the CXR tab. Link will be also sent to all Town Hall attendees today here, and some people that they have not really, couldn't make it at this time. Participation really requires membership, which has a limited NDA, but membership is not required for shuttle applications. 64 00:14:40.750 --> 00:14:46.870 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Okay? So you can fill up your application, and then later on, you know, you can be a member. 65 00:14:47.800 --> 00:14:53.629 Kia Omid-Zohoor: So, in a nutshell, CXR shuttle model is private MPW shuttle. 66 00:14:53.800 --> 00:15:04.170 Kia Omid-Zohoor: means only us, we are going to be there, nobody else. Secure multi-party NDA framework, full wafer available for Plus X, post-processing integration. 67 00:15:04.310 --> 00:15:12.639 Kia Omid-Zohoor: And concierge supports throughout the flow, and you can really verify that one with the folks that they have already, been in our first shuttle. 68 00:15:12.770 --> 00:15:22.619 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Participants must have a clear plus X implementation plan. Plus X implementation is a must to be in our shuttle. 69 00:15:23.980 --> 00:15:29.550 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Okay, with all of that, I… we are open to… 70 00:15:30.390 --> 00:15:48.630 Kia Omid-Zohoor: question and answers, so… Yeah, thank you, Kia. So, in the interest of time, we actually anticipate a few kind of common questions that everybody probably will have, you know, details, details. So, so I will ask, first. 71 00:15:48.630 --> 00:16:02.920 Kia Omid-Zohoor: And then we're also getting a question online, and so we'll follow up with those questions. So the first kind of anticipated question is, what is the course to participate? Could you elaborate, Kia? 72 00:16:03.150 --> 00:16:22.479 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Yeah. So, I think that the Northwest AI Hub Fund funds the full mask set, so users pay only for wafers they request, so we anticipate the wafer cost for 12-inch would be anywhere between 8.5 to 9.5K, it is estimated. 73 00:16:22.580 --> 00:16:29.799 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Optional service is available for you for wafer coring, couponing, thinning, plus X processing. 74 00:16:30.330 --> 00:16:40.700 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Packaging, we don't do any packaging, but we hook you up to other hubs for that, to do that, or to other vendors. Engineering support would be available. 75 00:16:40.760 --> 00:16:56.499 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Cost varies depending, really, on, number of wafers that, you know, you just pay for the wafers, so number of wafers that you're requesting, and plus X complexity that you'd like to implement it, so those are the costs you will have, and also for the test needs that you would have. 76 00:16:56.900 --> 00:17:06.129 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Can a startup participate? Yes. CXR actually is designed for startups. Industry R&D teams, university and national labs. 77 00:17:06.829 --> 00:17:24.019 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Thank you, Kia. And I think the next question is, naturally, is then, we anticipate there will be a cohort of potential users, so what will be the selection process and participation criteria? Okay. 78 00:17:24.819 --> 00:17:42.460 Kia Omid-Zohoor: So user expectations are the following. Projects must be compatible with the selected standard CMOS foundry process, that is TSMC28 nanometer, with post-CMOS integration at top metal. So that means what you are doing in plus X, you should be able… 79 00:17:42.590 --> 00:17:49.960 Kia Omid-Zohoor: you know, you should know that you can do that on 28 nanometer below, okay? User retain full IP ownership. 80 00:17:50.250 --> 00:17:58.989 Kia Omid-Zohoor: but must acknowledge that their design will be fabricated on a shared MPW reticle with other participants. 81 00:17:59.810 --> 00:18:05.400 Kia Omid-Zohoor: All participants must be Microelectronic Commons Hub members. 82 00:18:05.930 --> 00:18:15.389 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Each user must define a clear plan for post-CMOS plus X processing funded by the user. 83 00:18:16.230 --> 00:18:32.040 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Export and handling restriction, this is extremely important, that's why I highlighted it. All CXR fabricated silicon, including wafers, dyes, chip, and coupons, and the designs, actually, must remain within the United States. 84 00:18:32.110 --> 00:18:37.090 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Distribution, shipment, or transfer outside the United States is not permitted. 85 00:18:37.660 --> 00:18:45.830 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Users are expected to provide a brief technical outcome summary within 6 months after wafer delivery to them. 86 00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:47.960 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Okay. 87 00:18:47.960 --> 00:18:51.100 H.-S. Philip Wong: And also, I should add that users must be a U.S. entity. 88 00:18:51.690 --> 00:18:52.710 Kia Omid-Zohoor: That's right. 89 00:18:53.960 --> 00:18:59.520 Kia Omid-Zohoor: I'll add that one in, Philip, thank you for reminding me. 90 00:19:00.230 --> 00:19:07.830 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Okay, so then, are there, required agreements? 91 00:19:08.010 --> 00:19:19.849 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Yeah, so let me just say one more thing about the selection process from our side, if you don't mind, CP. Okay, we are really targeting 20 to 25 projects per shuttle. 92 00:19:19.990 --> 00:19:27.110 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Each proposal would be reviewed by CXR team for technical fit, readiness, and compatibility. 93 00:19:27.360 --> 00:19:32.419 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Final approval by, leadership and executive committee. 94 00:19:32.750 --> 00:19:39.320 Kia Omid-Zohoor: And priority will be given to projects aligned with AI hardware microalliance innovation. 95 00:19:39.340 --> 00:19:52.880 Kia Omid-Zohoor: CMOS plus X integration is not a priority, it is a must, okay? And also, it has to be congruent with national security, innovation, and commercialization relevance. 96 00:19:52.910 --> 00:19:57.280 Kia Omid-Zohoor: And technical readiness for the tape-out schedule as well is very important. 97 00:19:57.860 --> 00:20:04.039 Kia Omid-Zohoor: So, going back to your question for the agreement, 98 00:20:04.390 --> 00:20:08.759 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Yes. For the upcoming shuttle, we have… 99 00:20:09.040 --> 00:20:24.190 Kia Omid-Zohoor: We will have three agreements that we need to sign for selected participant. One is Hub Membership Agreement. So, all CXR shuttle participants must be member of Northwest AI Hub. This is required to ensure proper IP protection. 100 00:20:24.390 --> 00:20:29.060 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Program compliance and eligibility for participation. 101 00:20:29.530 --> 00:20:40.110 Kia Omid-Zohoor: And we would also need to run a multi-party NDA, which is going to be a four-way NDA. A confidentiality agreement will be executed between the user. 102 00:20:40.270 --> 00:20:54.399 Kia Omid-Zohoor: CXR, or Northwest AI Hub, the wafer broker that… our wafer broker is Muse Semiconductor, and TSMC, to enable secure access to the PDK, design information, and foundry services. 103 00:20:54.570 --> 00:21:13.649 Kia Omid-Zohoor: We do have one more agreement that we call the CXR User Participation Agreement. This agreement really defines the scope of the participation, including user responsibility for wafer costs and any optional downstream services, such as wafer coring, dicing, couponing, thinning, or plus X processing. 104 00:21:13.650 --> 00:21:14.610 Kia Omid-Zohoor: If applicable. 105 00:21:15.620 --> 00:21:25.780 Kia Omid-Zohoor: So, do we need… our own TSMC agreement? No, you don't need. Access to TSMC is coordinated through CXR. 106 00:21:26.790 --> 00:21:27.520 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Okay. 107 00:21:27.520 --> 00:21:38.230 H.-S. Philip Wong: Yeah, and let me elaborate on the third bullet on the top, CXL User Participation Agreement. One of the key items in the agreement is that 108 00:21:38.470 --> 00:21:45.769 H.-S. Philip Wong: Because we are aggregating many designs within the Hamas set that we CXR will purchase. 109 00:21:45.880 --> 00:22:01.120 H.-S. Philip Wong: then the way… and all the users will get the full wafer, not just the chip that you design, as in the typical NPW run. So, the wafer you receive will contain designs from other users. 110 00:22:01.120 --> 00:22:11.039 H.-S. Philip Wong: And the user participation agreement, you have to agree that you will not reverse engineer other people's design, because you have possession of the wafer. 111 00:22:15.130 --> 00:22:15.840 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Yes. 112 00:22:16.100 --> 00:22:35.219 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Then, there's, you know, a few other, you know, could be common questions, but one that maybe people like to ask would be, you know, since this is CMOS plus X. So, what can plus-X processing be done? Maybe that would be one of the questions. 113 00:22:35.290 --> 00:22:51.769 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Okay, so where the Plus-X processing will be done? Users fund their own Plus-X processing and testing of packaging. Plus access can be performed at Northwest AI Hub facilities, like SNF, or Banano, or Partner Labs. 114 00:22:53.290 --> 00:23:11.129 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Marvell Labs. Other common hubs, we have a very close relationship, and they have been very gracious that, you know, to really collaborated with us with our first shuttle, with California DREAMS, SWAP, SCMC, MMEC, and all the other hubs. We would connect 115 00:23:11.130 --> 00:23:25.790 Kia Omid-Zohoor: you to all the other hubs if your Plus X can be done anywhere that you like, or we can find a room for you, or a place for you. Industry partners, we have, like, some industry partners. 116 00:23:25.790 --> 00:23:31.360 Kia Omid-Zohoor: But only when it's applicable, okay, when they can actually accommodate us for that. 117 00:23:31.410 --> 00:23:41.610 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Okay, CXR can provide process integration guidance, vendor coordination, post-CMOS substrate preparation, and engineering support. 118 00:23:41.720 --> 00:23:51.809 Kia Omid-Zohoor: So, one question usually comes out, what's the die size limit, okay? Depends on the total reticle allocation. Typical NPW blocks. 119 00:23:51.920 --> 00:24:10.529 Kia Omid-Zohoor: can be anywhere between 1mm by 1mm to the maximum 4mm for 4mm for this particular, 28 nanometer, because we are having, actually, 50% shrink from 40 nanometer to 28 nanometer. 4mm by 4mm, that's a very huge, huge, actually, chip. 120 00:24:10.730 --> 00:24:26.179 Kia Omid-Zohoor: But if people, they need bigger size, they can talk, they can justify that, and we can work around that. Okay, final allocation really depends on the number of the users that they really are going to be participating or be accepted for this show. 121 00:24:27.390 --> 00:24:45.529 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Yeah. So, we skipped over a few, you know, anticipated common questions, but all this will be shared with you guys, maybe now that we kind of get to the question that's been raised, online. So actually, the first question is. 122 00:24:45.830 --> 00:25:05.390 Kia Omid-Zohoor: will another foundry with 28 nanometer be considered? Yes, this is a very good question. Actually, we have already been discussing with GlobalFoundries, and we are gonna… we are having a meeting with them for a specific shuttle that we're gonna undertake with them later on. 123 00:25:05.390 --> 00:25:12.780 Kia Omid-Zohoor: We are going to do that because we are trying to move to the onshore, foundries. 124 00:25:13.030 --> 00:25:27.459 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Yes, that's, definitely, we are gonna be working. So next year, I would suspect that we would probably would run two shuttles, and then one of them, we are really working with, GlobalFoundries, very closely on this. 125 00:25:27.910 --> 00:25:28.860 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Okay. 126 00:25:29.160 --> 00:25:43.249 Kia Omid-Zohoor: The next question, you maybe can already possibly, explained, but, the question is, is there, is there any support for X incrementation? 127 00:25:43.920 --> 00:25:46.379 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Plus X, implementation. 128 00:25:46.630 --> 00:26:03.590 Kia Omid-Zohoor: I think you had mentioned it already. Yeah, I think I covered a little bit, but there are multiple ways, as CP is just alluding to, is this. As I said, is that it's very important in your application, you have a very clear plan 129 00:26:03.590 --> 00:26:20.729 Kia Omid-Zohoor: and description what your plus X is, and where you are going to do that, or where… what do you need to be done, so we can try to see that how we can find a fabrication facility for you, and try to hook you up with partners that we have. 130 00:26:20.970 --> 00:26:45.200 Kia Omid-Zohoor: So, we have a lot of capability within Northwest AI Hub, but not… not… we would not be able to really accommodate everybody, okay? But we would try, but if we cannot do that within our hub, as I said before, all the other hubs, they are very, very eager to collaborate with us, okay? And we are… we really already enjoyed their support, especially California. 131 00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:50.770 Kia Omid-Zohoor: DREAMS, they've been very gracious to accommodate us for our CXR plus X. 132 00:26:52.190 --> 00:27:03.859 H.-S. Philip Wong: Yeah, so let me elaborate on that. I encourage you to contact Kia, contact the Hub, regarding your specific Plus X process that you would like to be supported. 133 00:27:03.860 --> 00:27:21.330 H.-S. Philip Wong: And we will, do our best to match you up with the capability that we have access to, or we have connections to, either at our hub facilities, such as the Banano facilities in our hub. 134 00:27:21.330 --> 00:27:29.140 H.-S. Philip Wong: and also with the other hubs, such as California DREAMS, Swap Hub, SCMC, MMEC, and so on. 135 00:27:29.140 --> 00:27:40.020 H.-S. Philip Wong: And also, we have connections with industry partners. For example, Western Digital is a, partner, is part of our hub. 136 00:27:40.020 --> 00:27:58.450 H.-S. Philip Wong: And there are other companies that we have been working with. So, because there are so many plus X possible, technology possible, I encourage you to contact us, so we will match you up with what you would desire to have with the capability that we are aware of. 137 00:28:00.440 --> 00:28:01.200 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Yep. 138 00:28:01.520 --> 00:28:10.289 Kia Omid-Zohoor: So, the next question is about the metallization. What will be the level, or the top metal layer. 139 00:28:10.470 --> 00:28:24.729 Kia Omid-Zohoor: In this process, and what metal pitch. Okay, that's a very good question. At this time, we are trying to leave this one open based on the… your… 140 00:28:24.800 --> 00:28:27.590 Kia Omid-Zohoor: participant requirement. 141 00:28:27.590 --> 00:28:49.309 Kia Omid-Zohoor: So, even the flavor of 28 nanometer, okay, we are trying to see what your requirement is, and based on that, we would try to choose the right metal stack that we can accommodate most people in there. So at this time, I don't have any number for you, okay, but we… we can… they… TSMC has a lot of metal options. 142 00:28:49.610 --> 00:28:58.230 Kia Omid-Zohoor: That I'm sure that we can find, some option that would really fulfill more… almost all of our, participants. 143 00:28:59.200 --> 00:29:00.000 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Okay? 144 00:29:00.160 --> 00:29:10.119 Kia Omid-Zohoor: So the wafer that we're gonna give to you guys is gonna go all the way to aluminum. So we're gonna have copper, and then we're gonna have aluminum, and the path is gonna be open. 145 00:29:12.880 --> 00:29:15.159 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Okay. 146 00:29:15.460 --> 00:29:30.119 Kia Omid-Zohoor: This next question, is kind of specific from, I guess, from one of the potential user. So this company or entity, have AI-related chips in 28, 147 00:29:30.120 --> 00:29:40.019 Kia Omid-Zohoor: nm at TSMC CMOS. So, to follow up, is there already a schedule for the first half of the 2027? 148 00:29:40.620 --> 00:29:45.690 Kia Omid-Zohoor: So, so this, user, potential user is interested to know 149 00:29:45.870 --> 00:29:56.929 Kia Omid-Zohoor: it will follow up the second shuttle. Is there one in the first half of 2027? Okay. For the next shuttle, 150 00:29:56.980 --> 00:30:01.400 Kia Omid-Zohoor: We are gonna… next year, we are planning to have two shuttles. 151 00:30:01.430 --> 00:30:04.400 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Okay? But we have not really decided. 152 00:30:04.430 --> 00:30:21.810 Kia Omid-Zohoor: what node we are going to, and not only that, we're still trying to find out which foundries we want to go to. Okay, we do know that we are going to really engage with GlobalFoundries, and perhaps with TSMC, but at this time, all I can tell you is that we are going to run two shuttles. 153 00:30:21.900 --> 00:30:30.380 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Next year. We definitely would run one of them on 28 nanometer, but where we're gonna run 28 nanometer, it may be in the GlobalFoundries. 154 00:30:31.230 --> 00:30:32.520 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Or maybe we go to… 155 00:30:32.520 --> 00:30:36.489 H.-S. Philip Wong: Let me add to that, that, 156 00:30:36.710 --> 00:30:39.859 H.-S. Philip Wong: All the shuttles that we're gonna run will have 157 00:30:40.060 --> 00:30:50.769 H.-S. Philip Wong: to have plus X fabrication on top of a CMOS wafer. In other words, we are not annotating any straightforward CMOS-only tape-out. 158 00:30:51.390 --> 00:31:09.080 Kia Omid-Zohoor: That's right. So, you cannot make a chip with us and then go do the packaging stuff, do something with packaging stuff at this time, okay? Later on, maybe in CXR, future plan, we would do, you know, multi-chip, you know, aggregations, things like that, but at this time, all has to be plus X implementation. 159 00:31:11.180 --> 00:31:11.970 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Okay. 160 00:31:12.480 --> 00:31:18.070 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Next question, actually, yeah, is about, photonics. 161 00:31:18.250 --> 00:31:26.760 Kia Omid-Zohoor: So, is there a specific appetite for leveraging this process for fabricating 162 00:31:26.990 --> 00:31:48.640 Kia Omid-Zohoor: photonics integrated circuit. Yes, actually, one of our CXR users on 40 nanometer is doing something with photonics. Actually, Erfan, actually, over here is, in the CXR team, is actually trying to do the plus X, implementation for, for his, 163 00:31:48.640 --> 00:31:54.390 Kia Omid-Zohoor: his requirement at, Stanford, nanofabrication facility. 164 00:31:54.430 --> 00:32:01.610 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Okay, we think we could do that, okay? And if we couldn't do that, we would probably, would work with the other hubs. 165 00:32:02.370 --> 00:32:04.959 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Yes. So the answer is yes. 166 00:32:07.790 --> 00:32:16.859 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Okay. As I said, again, you need to describe to us exactly what you're trying to do, and based on that, we can tell you what we can do for you. 167 00:32:19.410 --> 00:32:31.639 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Okay, another question, do any hard partners have capability or experience for fluid plus X layer? You know, like, such as nitrofluidic? 168 00:32:31.980 --> 00:32:45.470 Kia Omid-Zohoor: micophoretic, and so on. I have to say, I have no idea about this, but if you want, I can look into that. Definitely, I don't know about that. 169 00:32:46.000 --> 00:33:05.239 H.-S. Philip Wong: Yeah, currently, my understanding is we don't. We will look into that. I know that on the Stanford campus, we have a microfloretics foundry, but we need to take your input and connect you with those parties. 170 00:33:06.870 --> 00:33:07.540 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Hmm? 171 00:33:08.270 --> 00:33:10.530 H.-S. Philip Wong: Okay, you missed… you skipped one question. 172 00:33:10.530 --> 00:33:17.649 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Yeah, I'm actually trying to figure out… so there's one question talking about the RRAM. 173 00:33:17.660 --> 00:33:31.770 Kia Omid-Zohoor: and the TSMC device. So, let me just read the question here. For the Plus X, more detail on the foundry device before tape-out. Are those, TSMC devices? 174 00:33:31.770 --> 00:33:39.919 Kia Omid-Zohoor: I guess the answer is yes, and say, for RRAM, will we get the details of the RRAM characteristic? 175 00:33:39.920 --> 00:34:03.639 Kia Omid-Zohoor: So I assume this means RRAM for the TSMC? No, we don't, we don't, the flow that we're gonna choose is not gonna have RRAM in there. If you want to do any RRAM, any memory, you gotta do on plus X. Okay, so… and not only that, on this second shuttle, actually, I try to make sure that all our users, they are using the same flow. 176 00:34:04.040 --> 00:34:24.340 Kia Omid-Zohoor: the same type of material, because our first shuttle, some people, they were trying to use different type of devices, that I actually had to split the lot to three in order to accommodate everybody. That's not very easy to do, so the answer to your question, it is just a CMOS logic. 177 00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:35.119R Kia Omid-Zohoor: CMOS plus X means CMOS logic plus X. No RRAM or MRAM that any other foundry has. 178 00:34:35.820 --> 00:34:37.340 Kia Omid-Zohoor: At this time, okay? 179 00:34:37.550 --> 00:34:56.740 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Okay, next question, maybe I could answer it, is, will the video and slides from this meeting be posted later? Yeah, so the answer is yes. We're certainly going to share the slides, as well as the answer to the, anticipated common questions. 180 00:34:56.739 --> 00:35:03.130 Kia Omid-Zohoor: And also, we, actually recorded, this, session, this webinar. 181 00:35:03.130 --> 00:35:12.479 Kia Omid-Zohoor: and we're also trying to generate a manuscript, or sorry, a transcript, R, so we can also share that, with everybody. 182 00:35:13.450 --> 00:35:22.689 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Okay, and one more question, is RF and analog available for 28 nanometers? 183 00:35:23.050 --> 00:35:30.740 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Okay, RF, if you're talking about having an inductor, no. 184 00:35:30.970 --> 00:35:34.780 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Because inductor requires 3 micron, 185 00:35:35.040 --> 00:35:45.749 Kia Omid-Zohoor: copper, and that would create a topography for the rest of the people that they're not using RF, and then they cannot really reach out, you know, connect to the, 186 00:35:45.770 --> 00:36:02.769 Kia Omid-Zohoor: lower metal levels, okay? So, we are not going to be using HPC plus RF with the… let's say that with the copper, okay? But we maybe would use HPC+, or HPC, or HPL, whatever, okay? 187 00:36:03.010 --> 00:36:06.529 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Yeah, so we won't have the inductor on this one. 188 00:36:07.070 --> 00:36:07.740 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Okay. 189 00:36:09.550 --> 00:36:26.930 Kia Omid-Zohoor: So there are the questions so far. Maybe you can go over some of the page that we skipped? Yeah, in the meantime. Okay, so let's see, okay, so… Yeah. Q&A, this one, yeah, we over this one. Yeah, so… 190 00:36:27.080 --> 00:36:34.540 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Oh, yeah, what happened? Okay, so what happens after the town hall? What are the next steps for you, okay? 191 00:36:34.880 --> 00:36:51.829 Kia Omid-Zohoor: So, user responsibility. You submit application questionnaire after March 25th, and you provide CMOS design requirement, your area, device type, metal stack, what type of transistor you need, some people, they were talking, you know. 192 00:36:51.960 --> 00:36:57.649 Kia Omid-Zohoor: I like this metal pitch, this metal widths, okay. It doesn't mean that those are gonna be… 193 00:36:57.830 --> 00:37:10.310 Kia Omid-Zohoor: fulfilled, provided, but we would like to see that what's the commonality among all the users. Detailed plus X and post-CMOS plan. This is extremely important, okay? And what… 194 00:37:10.410 --> 00:37:11.830 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Do you need… 195 00:37:11.870 --> 00:37:23.009 Kia Omid-Zohoor: as a substrate, wafer coupon needs. What do you need? You need a wafer. By the way, we sell you, folks, we give you guys wafers, okay? And if you guys want. 196 00:37:23.010 --> 00:37:36.729 Kia Omid-Zohoor: to make a coupon, or dice, or core it, you know, to 4 inch, 6 inches, eighth inch, we can do it for you, or you can do it yourself, okay? So then the confirm hub membership. 197 00:37:36.940 --> 00:37:41.959 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Okay, so we need to do that. Okay, review and sign required agreements. 198 00:37:42.360 --> 00:37:56.919 Kia Omid-Zohoor: And our responsibility would be that we review technical compatibility of each project and user selection. We coordinate NDA membership participation agreements. We manage fund… 199 00:37:57.490 --> 00:38:01.399 Kia Omid-Zohoor: interface and shuttle logistics, like tape-out verification, etc. 200 00:38:01.540 --> 00:38:07.129 Kia Omid-Zohoor: And coordinate wafer handling, dicing, couponing, plus X support, whatever you need. 201 00:38:10.200 --> 00:38:12.929 Kia Omid-Zohoor: So, I think. 202 00:38:12.930 --> 00:38:13.800 H.-S. Philip Wong: Timeline? 203 00:38:14.110 --> 00:38:15.440 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Yeah, please go ahead. 204 00:38:16.720 --> 00:38:18.319 H.-S. Philip Wong: So, Kia, you have a timeline, right? 205 00:38:19.460 --> 00:38:22.260 Kia Omid-Zohoor: I have the time… yes, what do you mean, the timeline? 206 00:38:22.570 --> 00:38:25.650 H.-S. Philip Wong: When, when it's gonna be… Yes. 207 00:38:25.650 --> 00:38:27.210 Kia Omid-Zohoor: I already presented that for you. 208 00:38:27.620 --> 00:38:44.299 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Yeah, yes, I already did that. Yeah, so maybe this page, just to talk about technical… yeah, actually people do have questions, so maybe you can… Yeah, so… Okay, so for current shuttle, TSMC 28 nanometer CMOS, 209 00:38:44.490 --> 00:38:50.290 Kia Omid-Zohoor: As I said, the specific version of that will be determined based on CXR users' need. 210 00:38:50.630 --> 00:38:53.830 Kia Omid-Zohoor: And we would use a standard metal stack. 211 00:38:54.920 --> 00:39:14.120 Kia Omid-Zohoor: And post-CMAS plus X integration is… is actually… is a must, right? Okay. Future run may include other nodes, multiple shuttles per year, and I said definitely other foundries, okay? Is this a private shuttle? Yes. 212 00:39:14.320 --> 00:39:29.200 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Okay, that means that only the people that they sign the NDA, okay, they can have their chips in there, so all the wafers that you get, the people they get, all the people they sign the NDA, okay? So only CXR-approved users participate. 213 00:39:29.430 --> 00:39:31.819 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Not a public MPW. 214 00:39:31.950 --> 00:39:42.070 Kia Omid-Zohoor: and additional IP protection through NDAs. So we, as I said, we have 3 NDAs. In each of them, we emphasize about the IP or IP protection, you know? 215 00:39:42.580 --> 00:39:43.390 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Yes. 216 00:39:43.910 --> 00:39:47.129 Kia Omid-Zohoor: I don't think I have… One more question. Yes. 217 00:39:47.850 --> 00:39:53.329 Kia Omid-Zohoor: So… The question is, actually, what is the frequency range? 218 00:39:53.640 --> 00:39:56.259 Kia Omid-Zohoor: of inductor in the PDK. 219 00:39:56.480 --> 00:39:59.959 Kia Omid-Zohoor: I don't know, if I knew that, I could not tell you that. 220 00:40:01.410 --> 00:40:19.100 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Okay. Yeah, but I can tell you this, that this node is for 5G and 6G. I don't know if that would help you. If you notice, I said that there is the 30s IP available, so if you know about that, so you know what the frequency range is going to be. But I cannot say it in details. 221 00:40:20.010 --> 00:40:20.960 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Okay. 222 00:40:21.440 --> 00:40:24.400 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Looks like that's all the questions we… 223 00:40:24.400 --> 00:40:27.520 H.-S. Philip Wong: Oh, no, there's another question, CP, just come in. 224 00:40:28.200 --> 00:40:29.080 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Okay. 225 00:40:29.980 --> 00:40:39.350 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Let's see, let's try to get it. Yeah, we have time, so if you have any questions, please ask. I think we're very, very efficient in this, 226 00:40:40.110 --> 00:40:44.049 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Maybe… Maybe you can just tell me, Anna, what it is. 227 00:40:44.240 --> 00:40:54.709 H.-S. Philip Wong: Yeah, the question is, after we receive the waiver, we can cut the dies and do processing multiple times. Is that correct? We are not sure about the yield. 228 00:40:57.420 --> 00:41:16.659 Kia Omid-Zohoor: I don't know what you mean that if you… okay, you receive the wafer, and you can order as many wafer you want, and you can do whatever you want. You can make coupon out of it, you can dice it, or you can core it, and you can make a lot of experiment, plus experimentation, to see what's your optimal. 229 00:41:16.860 --> 00:41:18.890 Kia Omid-Zohoor: And then see what your yield is. 230 00:41:20.340 --> 00:41:33.899 H.-S. Philip Wong: Okay, the next question is… so, in other words, to elaborate on that, after you got the wafer, you can do whatever you want. You can process it, reprocess it, strip everything you have done, redo it, whatever you want to do with it. That's okay. 231 00:41:34.510 --> 00:41:52.209 Kia Omid-Zohoor: So, so on that one, so that's important, in my opinion, that you get enough sample so you can experiment different design of Plus X, or different material of plus X that you would like to do. So that's, that's the beauty of this, CXR program. 232 00:41:52.400 --> 00:42:00.069 H.-S. Philip Wong: Right. There's another question. Is the wafer processing done at Stanford or outsourced to a partner? 233 00:42:02.360 --> 00:42:12.400 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Well, the ones… okay, it is based on what we can do, or based on… also based on the price that you like to… 234 00:42:12.570 --> 00:42:16.419 Kia Omid-Zohoor: I guess this question could be either post-CMOS… 235 00:42:16.420 --> 00:42:39.200 Kia Omid-Zohoor: So, plus X, I think you, or you already mentioned there's various options. The post CMOS, yeah, maybe you want to mention a little bit, post CMOS options, for, for them. We know some, users would have their own post-CMOS arrangement. Oh, yes. And, yeah, and, and we will also provide options. 236 00:42:39.200 --> 00:42:53.209 Kia Omid-Zohoor: We have, members, that are actually doing, dicing and, and coring and all kinds of stuff. Right. Service as well, so maybe… Yeah, so I think I touched on this one. We actually… 237 00:42:53.260 --> 00:43:16.280 Kia Omid-Zohoor: spent a lot of time… Irfan and I, we spent a lot of time to really, check all the available vendors and audited them. Actually, we went to their facility, so they are very qualified, they have very good vendors, and actually, they are very eager to support us. They are actually part of the CXR and Northwest AI Hub. These are the vendors, actually. 238 00:43:16.370 --> 00:43:40.260 Kia Omid-Zohoor: They are our members, but then they're supporting all the users. So, if you would like, we can just introduce you to them, and then you can take your wafer and ask them to do whatever you want them to do for you, or you can ask us. We do all the things you need by interfacing with them, and we just charge you a nominal, just a service charge for that. It's not really much anyway. 239 00:43:40.770 --> 00:43:43.100 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Yeah, we would try to do anything that… 240 00:43:43.660 --> 00:43:47.260 Kia Omid-Zohoor: you'd make your project successful, so… Okay. 241 00:43:47.430 --> 00:43:51.630 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Generally, this is also a question about… 242 00:43:51.640 --> 00:44:10.569 Kia Omid-Zohoor: wafer processing in general, again, for the Stanford or outsourcing, I guess you kind of answered that question. Really, it's very flexible. Well, if a Stanford SNF, or nano@Stanford… Yeah, it doesn't need to be… yeah, it doesn't… it doesn't need to be in SNF, and sometimes it cannot be in SNF. 243 00:44:10.570 --> 00:44:31.039 Kia Omid-Zohoor: We don't have the capability to do that, that's fine. And then we try to see that where else they have it. I can give you an example on 40 nanometer, like, for example, we could do, some plus Xs at SNF, and some we couldn't. So we… we really got in touch with California DREAMS and Swap, and we had meeting 244 00:44:31.040 --> 00:44:50.499 Kia Omid-Zohoor: among ourselves, between Northwest AI Hub and California DREAMS, and later on, with the users and all together, and now that that plus X is going to be done in California Dreams. And Christine and Steve from California DREAMS, they have been very gracious, very cooperative with us, and we really enjoyed working with them. 245 00:44:52.500 --> 00:44:56.729 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Okay, are there any more questions? 246 00:44:57.480 --> 00:44:58.010 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Mmm. 247 00:44:58.010 --> 00:45:02.419 H.-S. Philip Wong: But there's another question, which vendor you may connect us. 248 00:45:02.690 --> 00:45:03.700 Kia Omid-Zohoor: worth… 249 00:45:03.700 --> 00:45:09.630 H.-S. Philip Wong: To do wire bonding for us, how much per chip would cost, and how long does it take? 250 00:45:10.210 --> 00:45:11.290 H.-S. Philip Wong: to do that. 251 00:45:12.890 --> 00:45:17.720 Kia Omid-Zohoor: which vendor? I cannot tell you the name over here, but, you know, once you're… 252 00:45:17.720 --> 00:45:41.289 Kia Omid-Zohoor: You know, we do have… you can go through our Northwest AI hub, and you can see our vendors for packaging, and for coring, things like that. So those are the people that we have already, audited as well. So we really think they are highly, qualified, and they're very reasonable price. Actually, they're giving us a lot of… their CEO, actually. 253 00:45:41.290 --> 00:45:46.620 Kia Omid-Zohoor: He's telling me that he's gonna give us a lot of discount, because, 254 00:45:46.750 --> 00:46:02.330 Kia Omid-Zohoor: our CXR. So… but just please remember that you cannot get a chip from us and then just go wire bond it. You have to do plus X on it, and then on top of that, you can do wire bonding. That's okay. 255 00:46:02.890 --> 00:46:17.670 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Yeah, to emphasize, this is not, you know, doing a CMOS run for anybody, you know. Yes. It is a CMOS plus X, so that would be one of the important selection criteria, yeah. Right, and also… 256 00:46:17.670 --> 00:46:25.399 H.-S. Philip Wong: We are… we're getting to the end of it. Looks like we exhausted some of the questions. Maybe just have a few words, too, as a closing remark. 257 00:46:25.510 --> 00:46:36.590 H.-S. Philip Wong: We have done quite a bit of work in creating this pilot run, which we taped out in January this year, and in this TSMC 40 nanometer. 258 00:46:36.590 --> 00:46:46.029 H.-S. Philip Wong: As Kia has mentioned, we have 16 users and 20 designs across academia, government, and also small startup companies. 259 00:46:46.120 --> 00:47:03.039 H.-S. Philip Wong: And we are working on the, on this next shutter run on 28 nanometer, a little bit more advanced node. As you can see, one of the key difficulties in moving to advanced node, for the X processing 260 00:47:03.040 --> 00:47:21.379 H.-S. Philip Wong: It's typically we… many of the processing facilities have trouble matching the pitch of the more advanced node, and there have been discussions about moving to 16 nanometer node, 7 nanometer node, and so on. 261 00:47:21.380 --> 00:47:31.499 H.-S. Philip Wong: But the, the, challenge there is for the fabrication to be able to match the, metal pitch of those advanced nodes. 262 00:47:31.500 --> 00:47:44.320 H.-S. Philip Wong: We will continue to look into that and work with, fabrication facilities that may be able to do these prosthetics at the… at the better pitch that we… at this advanced note. 263 00:47:44.620 --> 00:47:59.859 H.-S. Philip Wong: Going forward, beyond this 28 nanometer run that we're going to run next year, so it's a question about that, what we will run in future years. As Kia has mentioned, we plan to run two more runs in 2027. 264 00:47:59.860 --> 00:48:06.610 H.-S. Philip Wong: The exact node has not been decided yet, but it will be somewhat along the same line that we have… 265 00:48:06.610 --> 00:48:19.410 H.-S. Philip Wong: been thinking about, A, riding on success on the 40 and 28 nanometer, and also looking into possibilities of moving to more advanced node. 266 00:48:19.640 --> 00:48:35.650 H.-S. Philip Wong: And another direction is to engage with foundries other than TSMC. We have been talking to globalfoundries and other foundries that could potentially provide these foundry services to us. 267 00:48:35.650 --> 00:48:41.030 H.-S. Philip Wong: Our goal is really to support, the whole, community. 268 00:48:41.380 --> 00:48:59.980 H.-S. Philip Wong: within the U.S. on the CMOS Plus X, fabrication, and, we, many of the questions today regards, has to do with the particular Plus X fabrication. I encourage you to contact Kia Omid-Zohoor. 269 00:48:59.980 --> 00:49:12.869 H.-S. Philip Wong: to, identify your plus X needs. Some of you have capability to do plus X. We want to make sure that your capability matches up with the wafer that will come in. 270 00:49:12.980 --> 00:49:15.549 H.-S. Philip Wong: And, and that's very important. 271 00:49:15.640 --> 00:49:29.560 H.-S. Philip Wong: And also, some of you may not have Prox capability, and we would be happy to match you up with the Plus X capability that we have access to, or we have connections with. 272 00:49:29.560 --> 00:49:41.070 H.-S. Philip Wong: Such as the other hubs and other fabrication facilities. But we do need to know what your requirements are, and what your desired requirements are, so that we can match you up with that. 273 00:49:41.210 --> 00:49:54.039 H.-S. Philip Wong: And, we will… if we are a hub, facilities are able to do the plus-X fabrication for you, we could do that. And, of course, we need to match up what you need with what we can produce. 274 00:49:54.120 --> 00:50:07.319 H.-S. Philip Wong: And finally, there are a lot of details about plastics integration, such as alignment marks, test structures, and so on. And, we will be working, once you are part of our… 275 00:50:07.320 --> 00:50:25.660 H.-S. Philip Wong: users, we will work with you to identify those needs. For example, your particular Plus X facility may have certain requirements for alignment marks and so on. We'll work with you to make sure that those alignment marks and so on are… can be put onto the… onto the wafer, on the design. 276 00:50:25.790 --> 00:50:34.429 H.-S. Philip Wong: And we have done quite a bit of our work in making sure that we have all the alignment marks for our users in the last round that we just taped out. 277 00:50:35.650 --> 00:50:52.999 H.-S. Philip Wong: So, oh, there's another question. We work with an industry company for the Plus X part. We need to negotiate the pricing of the Plus X processing of the companies, or their standardized pricing set up by the CXR. Kia, you… 278 00:50:53.000 --> 00:50:55.889 Kia Omid-Zohoor: I think, Philip, why don't you answer this question? 279 00:50:56.200 --> 00:51:15.569 H.-S. Philip Wong: Yeah, basically, the users are responsible for all the Plus X fabrications, so if you're working with an industry company for the Plus X part, you're responsible to negotiate with them, your… how you pay them, or how you work with them. We are responsible for 280 00:51:15.570 --> 00:51:28.749 H.-S. Philip Wong: getting your design in GDS files, and setting off, and composing the super die, and sending off to Foundry, and getting the wafers back to you. That's what we plan to be responsible for. 281 00:51:29.150 --> 00:51:41.360 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Yeah, just to emphasize again, you look at the CXR journey, you guys are going to see the slides that we're going to share with you. The last two steps, the plus X, and also, all the, 282 00:51:41.360 --> 00:51:59.240 Kia Omid-Zohoor: the wafer of the, sorry, the packaging and testing. We are not, you know, we are… we are help, so you can see that we are talking about, we can provide this, or maybe we can provide that, but ultimately, you guys are in charge of that, or, you know, so you'll be in charge of that. 283 00:51:59.240 --> 00:52:07.699 Kia Omid-Zohoor: And all we want is the end, and you at least provide us a report of what you come out of your test. 284 00:52:08.250 --> 00:52:12.830 Kia Omid-Zohoor: So… I'd like to just add, 285 00:52:13.190 --> 00:52:27.659 Kia Omid-Zohoor: I really encourage everybody to apply as soon as you guys can, and then make your need, specify your need and your plus X requirement in details. If you talk to our 286 00:52:29.770 --> 00:52:39.480 Kia Omid-Zohoor: or to people that they really joined our shuttle for 40 nanometer, you can say that. We have been extremely cooperative to accommodate everybody that we could, okay? 287 00:52:39.570 --> 00:52:57.590 Kia Omid-Zohoor: But then, the seat may be limited to the number of the people that they're going to be applying, but we will try to accommodate as many people as we can, because that's our objective, really, you know, try to facilitate lab to fab, you know, innovations, you know. 288 00:52:58.950 --> 00:53:18.309 Kia Omid-Zohoor: And if you have any questions, you can call me, you have my phone number. I don't know if you do. Okay, I would put my phone number in the slide as well. So, I like to talk, because that's easier for me, you know, to discuss for half an hour and get to see what you guys need, okay? 289 00:53:19.310 --> 00:53:21.070 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Thank you all. Yeah. 290 00:53:21.160 --> 00:53:22.380 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Thank you, Kia. 291 00:53:22.460 --> 00:53:30.329 Kia Omid-Zohoor: And, you know, we're just almost right on time, so thank you, everyone, for your participation. 292 00:53:30.330 --> 00:53:45.139 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Again, we will share it with the, the slides and… and notes, today. And… and again, you have any question, please let us know. And keep in mind, we will open. 293 00:53:45.160 --> 00:53:52.900 Kia Omid-Zohoor: The portal are for the application, to be on the, on the shuttle, in about one week's time. 294 00:53:54.510 --> 00:53:55.059 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Thank you. 295 00:53:55.060 --> 00:53:55.590 H.-S. Philip Wong: Go. 296 00:53:56.620 --> 00:53:58.440 Kia Omid-Zohoor: Thanks. Have a good day. Thank you.